Question

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Jay

Can quality be inferred by popularity?

Recently I have been hearing this claim a lot, especially on movie\show\book reviews, when judging the quality of art. It is popular therefore it must be good , or the invert  - It is not popular, therefore it must be bad .

Could this argument be logical, or applied in certain cases? Can any conclusions be deduced based on popularity?

asked on Sunday, Jan 17, 2021 05:55:07 PM by Jay

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Daniel writes:

Does any serious person consider the top ten songs on the charts to be the best ten songs most recently created?

posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2021 07:01:11 AM
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Jay writes:
[To Daniel]

Frequently this claim is used as proof for objective quality in art. I not just that I like this song. It is also objectively good quality music as proven by its status on this-top-something-list. You are wrong in not liking it and my tastes are superior to yours.

[ login to reply ] posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2021 07:43:36 AM

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Answers

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Bo Bennett, PhD
3

There is much ambiguity in the words "good" and "bad." When we do say, for example, a product on Amazon has 4 1/2 stars and over 1000 reviews, we can say that people seem to be happy with it. In this sense, it is considered a "good" product. The inverse is more problematic because we can't infer that a new product with no ratings (yet) is bad—we know nothing about it.

So to answer you question, it can be reasonable when applied to certain cases, as long as all parties are clear as to what is meant by "good."

answered on Sunday, Jan 17, 2021 08:33:37 PM by Bo Bennett, PhD

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TrappedPrior (RotE)
2

The fallacy of appeal to popularity is more commonly encountered when deducing truth from the numbers of people agreeing with a proposition. This is fallacious because the two are distinct from one another and thus exist independently (e.g. a large number of people, or even the majority, can be wrong on things).

In terms of "good", as Dr Bo points out, it depends on what is meant by 'good'. If you see a product with high ratings, it seems like for most people who buy it and leave reviews, it does the job they want it to - and thus, it is good for that purpose (just be careful applying this logic to political books, as people often leave favourable reviews when they agree with the author's position).

answered on Monday, Jan 18, 2021 09:00:50 AM by TrappedPrior (RotE)

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GoblinCookie
1

It is a fairly standard fallacy known as the appeal to popularity.

The reverse is a form of appeal to spite I think.

answered on Monday, Jan 18, 2021 07:34:25 AM by GoblinCookie

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Jordan Pine
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As has been pointed out, it’s the word “good” that becomes problematic. More simply, the argumentum ad populum fallacy asserts: "If many believe so, it is so.” This suggests there is no situation where the argument is valid. That is, it is just not logically sound to argue ‘truth by popularity.’

Using the Amazon book example: Is it logical to claim that because a book has hundreds of five-star reviews, it is good? Well, what does “good” mean? Worth reading? Then certainly not. Like me, I’m sure you have often been disappointed when reading “popular” books. (The same goes for movies rated “good” by critics or viewers on Rotten Tomatoes). 

What about “good” in a moral sense? Well, 74% of Amazon reviewers give Adolph Hitler’s Mein Kampf five stars. OK, you say, that’s a bad example because they aren’t saying the content, per se, is good. But what if those reviews were mostly by white supremacists?

Any book can present this problem. Consider Charles Darwin’s On the Origin of Species . Forget “good.” In all senses of the word, it is considered GREAT by millions of people. Unsurprisingly, its Amazon reviews are likewise great. But recently, some commentators have been pointing out that the sub-title of the book is “And the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life.” That’s right: Darwin was a racist, one of the worst kinds of people by today’s moral standards. Some have argued, in fact, that his theories were responsible for eugenics and inspired the thinking of ... wait for it ... Adolph Hitler.

So: I submit that the ad populum argument is always fallacious. Among a group of like-minded people, it seduces us into thinking it is a valid argument because we cannot think of any way it could be wrong. But that is often just a failure of our imagination. As shown above, people’s opinions and perspectives are too unstable to ever be the basis of objective truth. The most we can say is that majority opinions suggest, directionally, that something may be so. We might even say that, as a heuristic, it is usually wise to use popularity as a guide for what is good. But I contend the standard of logic is much higher, and that this argument fails that standard in every case.

answered on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2021 10:46:40 AM by Jordan Pine

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Jay writes:

I meant to ask specifically about the quality of art. Not morality. I guess the wording of my propositions was misleading, but I think a this answer could be a lot more useful if we edit out the morality.

posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2021 11:19:40 AM
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Jordan Pine writes:

[To Jay]

“Quality of art” is especially subjective. For example, I’m sure you’ve heard the stories of toilets presented as art. If all the top art critics rave about it, and a room full of art aficionados sipping the finest wine and sampling the finest cheeses extoll its virtues, does that make a toilet a work of fine art?

Could we even begin to articulate an objective standard for what constitutes “good” art? I don’t think so.

In a sense, I addressed this challenge using the example of the Amazon book that has hundreds of five-star reviews. Here, good quality could mean “worth reading.” Is a book with high consumer ratings on Amazon worth reading? My answer:

...certainly not. Like me, I’m sure you have often been disappointed when reading “popular” books. (The same goes for movies rated “good” by critics or viewers on Rotten Tomatoes). 

The latter example just came up recently. My family and I watched (and enjoyed) a new movie called Run Hide Fight. The details aren’t important, but it was distributed via an alternate platform because the typical Hollywood people wouldn’t take on the film after certain actual events made the topic too sensitive for their liking. The people that picked it up have a particular agenda that clashes with Hollywood’s agenda. Predictably, the critics from Hollywood mostly hated the film, giving it a consensus 30% score. For our purposes, we can say it received a 3 out of 10 on the “quality of art” scale. So the movie is of poor quality, right? It’s not “good”?

Not so fast. Audiences gave the film a consensus score of 92% or 9.2 out of 10 on the “quality of art” scale. That means the movie is not just good, it’s great, right?

See the problem? A person who shares the agenda of the people who hate the film could easily argue it isn’t good. A person who shares the agenda of the people who love the film could easily argue it is great. Both have numbers and a consensus on their side. However, both would be engaging in the argumentum ad populum fallacy, perhaps even with a dash of argumentum ad verecundiam thrown in (if arguing critics’ opinions matter more than typical moviegoer opinions).


[ login to reply ] posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2021 09:22:21 AM