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TrappedPrior (RotE)

Again, Is The Trolley Problem a Fallacy?

Because it requiers my supplication to it.

And if only, I agree to its premise that I am onboard (pun intended)?with its forgone conclusion(s)?

Therefore having falsely presented itself as a so-called "thought experiment" in circa 1967, which depends on free will participation that the social scientists failed to get (conformed concent); and if they did is a fallacy just the same: am Appeal to Authority.

Just for starts.

asked on Friday, Mar 05, 2021 09:40:36 PM by TrappedPrior (RotE)

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TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:

Could be a weak analogy if applied to a given situation, since many modern moral dilemmas do not carry this urgency.

However, on its own, it is not a fallacy, it's a logic problem.

posted on Saturday, Mar 06, 2021 11:59:52 AM

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account no longer exists
4

No. It's a moral dilemma that pits deontological against consequential reasoning. If fallacies exist it is only in the explanations one puts forth to justify their decision of whom to save or sacrifice.

answered on Saturday, Mar 06, 2021 06:29:19 AM by account no longer exists

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account no longer exists writes:

That's one definition that you find acceptable to your mind. The very definition I  am questioning . But thank you for responding. I thought more people would be out there that care to use their minds. 

posted on Saturday, Mar 06, 2021 10:00:50 AM
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Arlo
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"Is the Trolley Problem a (logical) fallacy?" -- No, it's not.  That's because it isn't an argument, it's a question to be answered.

In my experience, this problem has been used in the context of ethics, rather than logic.  Not only do I see the problem as an ethical one (and not a logical one), I don't see an argument here at all.  In its purest form, the Trolley Problem doesn't present a preferred outcome; rather, it poses a problematic dichotomy and asks for the "best" (or perhaps least bad) option.  Those responding to the question posed might present arguments and those arguments might or might not include fallacies; however, the question isn't a fallacy.

As I understand the Trolley Problem, it is structured as a situation in which there are exactly two options (i.e., an actual dichotomy) in which one is asked to balance the moderate potential for harm to a large number of people against highly likely harm to just one individual. Ultimately, the question asked is, " Is it better to accept a high level of risk to an individual or to accept a lower level of risk for a group?

The only way I can see it it being a logical issue (so that we could debate whether it's "good" logic or "poor" logic, i.e., a fallacy) would be if we placed it in the context of a particular belief structure.  If, for example, we were part of a group for which a basic tenet of our belief structure is that our duty is to do the most good (or the least harm) for the greatest number of people, then the argument would go along the lines of:

A ) When faced with a choice, we must always choose doing the most good (or the least harm) for the largest number -- presumably accepted by "our group" as an axiom and therefore assumed to be true.

B ) Switching tracks will somewhat reduce the risk for the larger group, although it will significantly increase the risk for a single person -- a part of the problem's typical situation that we are asked by the problem to accept as true.

C ) Therefore, switching tracks is the correct choice since it follows our group's basic tenet of fostering the greatest good for the largest number.

Such an argument doesn't seem to have a fallacy.

On the other hand, let's assume the argument went like this (for members of the same group):

A ) When faced with a choice, we must always choose doing the most good (or the least harm) for the largest number -- presumably accepted by "our group" as an axiom and therefore assumed to be true.

D ) Switching tracks will almost certainly create huge harm and perhaps even death to for the individual on the other track -- a part of the problem's typical situation that we are asked to assume to be true.

E ) Therefore, switching tracks is the wrong choice since it would potentially kill an individual.

Without getting into the ethical debates associated with the Trolley Problem (and others like it) this conclusion may or may not be a correct statement, but it doesn't follow from the premises presented ... therefore, this argument presents a fallacy.

What I've tried to present are two arguments , one without a fallacy and one with a fallacy.  If I've done it correctly, we have an example of a fallacious  argument  and one with a valid argument -- since arguments can include fallacies.

However, back to the original question ... "Is the Trolley Problem a (logical) fallacy?"  No, it's a problem .  The problem can lead to various arguments, some of which might include a logical fallacy ... but the problem itself isn't a fallacy.

To put the Trolley Problem into a more current context, let's consider vaccinations in the midst of a short supply of vaccine: " Is it better to provide two doses to a smaller number of individuals or a single dose to a larger number of individuals? "  Neither is a great option but it's not so much a question of logic as ethics -- unless we're part of a group with a basic tenet like "helping a large number (even a little bit) is better than helping just a few" or "protecting a small number to the fullest degree possible is better than protecting more to a lesser degree".  From either of these positions, one can construct valid, logical arguments (and fallacious ones).  

However, the choice of which position one accepts as "right" is an ethical, and not logical, decision.

answered on Saturday, Mar 06, 2021 01:33:57 PM by Arlo

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account no longer exists writes:

There is a young love blossimg between them. I can see a mother nursing her baby. A she another mother taking a comic book away from her child and eaggwag her finger. 

Then the trolley driver steps off (his getting off duty) and warns me to take it easy on the breaks  because they are acting funny. 

I look at the short little man sideways and board the trolley and say, "Okay, folks! End of the line! Everybody off! Breaks are bad. This trolley's next stop is the to the repair shop!" The people gasp and exit the trolley.

At that point the simulation ends. The trolley remains but the people disappear.

To Be Continued on My Laptop.

,

posted on Saturday, Mar 06, 2021 03:39:25 PM
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account no longer exists writes:

Maybe I can keep picking away.

Background: 

We are in Troy and Abed's Dreamatorium. I am Abed dressed in black trolley uniform and cap, standing on board a now empty red trolley because I ordered all the people off, informing them the breaks were in need of repair. The people never really existed, they just vanished because we're in the Trolley problem simulation.

A disembodied booms from overheard.

"No, no, Abed." Says the voice. "You are not playing along with the thought experiment right. You are supposed to drive the trolley down the hill and kill one to 10 people."

Why would I do that?

So I can teach you about ethics and morally. 

By using the killing of people in your in your thought experiment?

Yes.

And that makes sense to you?

Yes.

Not me, brother. I am out.

End Trolley problem simulation.

posted on Saturday, Mar 06, 2021 04:15:35 PM