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Petra Liverani

Is the inference that journalists were speaking candidly when alluding to controlled demolition on 9/11 a false premise?

In a video made to Tom Petty's, Free Fallin' focused on the collapse of WTC-7 we see a number of reporters allude to controlled demolition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgx8Uwo-Vxc

This is what they say:

Vince DeMentri, WCBS reporter
“It was almost as if it were a planned implosion. It just pancaked.”

Al Jones, 1010 WINS reporter
“And I turned in time to see what looked like a skyscraper implosion. It looked like it had been done by a demolition crew, the whole thing just collapsing down on itself.”

Dan Rather, CBS News Anchor
“Amazing, incredible, pick your word. For the third time today, it’s reminiscent of those pictures we’ve all seen too much on television before, where a building was deliberately destroyed by well-placed dynamite to knock it down.”

Exchange between Brian Williams, MSNBC News Anchor and David Restuccio, FDNY EMS Lieutenant
“Can you confirm it was No 7 that just went in?”
[“Went in” is a term used in relation to building destruction by implosion that comes from the fact that the buildings fall in on themselves.]

“Yes, sir.”

“And you guys knew this was comin’ all day.”

“We had heard reports that the building was unstable and that eventually it would either come down on its own or it would be taken down.”


9/11 researchers who use these allusions in their argument for cause of destruction of WTC-7 being controlled demolition assume that the reporters are speaking candidly, however, there are reasons to believe they are scripted. If scripted, of course, the complexion on the "event" changes somewhat.

What do others think?

asked on Thursday, Jun 23, 2022 08:10:09 AM by Petra Liverani

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Arlo writes:

If we understand “candidly” to mean “honestly and truthfully”, then we need ask whether the figures of speech (the similes) used were accurate and helped others to visualize what things looked like.  I wasn’t there so I can’t serve as an authority but it does seem reasonable to me that the collapse was “like”, “as if”, and “reminiscent of” controlled implosions.  If the collapse in fact made those cited think of a controlled implosion, then the speakers were in fact describing honestly and truthfully about what they saw, and framing it in terms others could be expected to understand.  They spoke candidly about what came to their minds.

it’s important to recognize that truthfully saying “A reminds me of B.” Is a totally different from saying “It’s true that A is B.”

The title of the post seems like poisoning the well .

 

posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2022 03:51:59 PM
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Petra Liverani writes:
[To Arlo]

it’s important to recognize that truthfully saying “A reminds me of B.” Is a totally different from saying “It’s true that A is B.”

 

It's also always important to consider ALL the evidence and when an opposing hypothesis is presented to consider whether it fits better than the other.

Brian Williams says, "Can you confirm it was No. 7 that just went in ?"

As "to go in" is a term used in relation to implosions he is in fact implying he believes the building came down by controlled demolition. It seems a rather strange term for him to be using in this situation. no?

[ login to reply ] posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2022 09:10:07 PM
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Petra Liverani writes:
[To Arlo]

Just to add, Arlo, accepting the "speaking candidly" hypothesis means accepting what I believe to be the false premise that journalists would even dream of referring candidly to controlled demolition.

We all have an instinctive understanding of what to say where power is exerted and mainstream journalists speaking late in the afternoon after the terrorist narrative has already been promulgated would know instinctively not to refer to something that might in any way contradict the "terrorist" narrative. They know what side their bread is buttered on as we all do, even those of us who wish to speak against the narrative.

As 9/11 scholar, Graeme MacQueen says, "There is no room in the official story for controlled demolition." By 5pm in the afternoon, especially, journalists would get that.

Graeme has studied journalists' allusions to controlled demolition on the day but he infers they were speaking candidly.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/how-36-reporters-brought-us-twin-towers-explosive-demolition-911/5718119

However, if you disagree that it is a false premise to think that journalists might candidly refer to controlled demolition on the afternoon of 9/11, I'm all ears.

[ login to reply ] posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2022 12:35:18 AM
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Arlo writes:
[To Petra Liverani]

Referring to something is hugely different from claiming that "the something" is fact.  

I think it's probably honest and truthful (i.e., candid) that those making the reports thought that the implosion "looked like", "looked the same as if" and/or "reminded them" of something else.  It's very much like a reporter who describes some sort of loud disaster as "sounding like a bomb went off" or as "sounding like an explosion".  It's probably an apt description of the event – one that helps the audience get a sound (or in the case of September 2001, a visual) picture of what was happening.  The audience probably came closer to understanding what was happening that it would have with a simple, but totally correct, "The building just fell down." statement.

In the case of my "loud disaster", saying it sounded like a bomb or an explosion falls far short of claiming that the disaster was the result of a bomb or an explosion.  Similarly, reporters describing a building collapse as being similar to a controlled impassion is hugely different from those reporters claiming that it WAS a controlled implosion.  

If we're looking for logic and trying to avoid logical fallacies, we need to clearly distinguish between implications and facts.  Logic can follow from facts; it's difficult for that to happen from implication or alternate interpretations of the actual words used.

[ login to reply ] posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2022 11:24:23 AM
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Petra Liverani writes:

[To Arlo]

Arlo, the superior analyst always addresses challenges to their claims. You haven't done that. Seriously, that's all you really need to do to keep on track. Address any challenge to your beliefs or claims that come your way - or better yet - in addition, go out of your way to check for any challenges. It's so straightforward but the vast majority of people don't do that, they are attached to their beliefs and steamroll along blithely ignoring all the challenges to their beliefs and claims while certainly not doing any due diligence on their beliefs and claims in the first place.

I've pointed out that Brian Williams' use of the demolition industry term, "to go in" ("Can you confirm it was No. 7 that just went in?"), that applies specifically to implosions because of how the buildings fall in on themselves, isn't an "as if" allusion to controlled demolition, rather CD as cause is implied, and nor does it easily fit the hypothesis "speaking candidly" - why would Brian use an industry term? - and I've also put forward that it is a false premise to think that journalists would go anywhere near "controlled demolition" voluntarily when it so very obviously doesn't align with the terrorist narrative. You've simply ignored these challenges, blithely ignored and steamrolled on.

[EDIT: I see you mean that because they weren't actually stating controlled demolition - except in the case of Brian Williams whose words implied by definition CD - that it was OK for them to allude to it. I'm afraid it's still weak. The thing is controlled demolition has a signature ... which is nothing like destruction by fire ... and then there's Brian Williams' words which are highly anomalous to "speaking candidly". The point is "scripted" simply fits far better than "speaking candidly" for a number of reasons.]

What you should be doing is puzzling. You should be puzzling over the evidence and how it doesn't fit "speaking candidly" very well and also puzzling over how it might better fit the "scripted" hypothesis rather than grabbing at explanations that do not fit the evidence very well.

Listen to theoretical physics luminary, Richard Feynman, talk about what's wrong with science in a 1974 Caltech commencement speech in the two snippets linked below - he says what's wrong is that scientists don't do due diligence, they don't ensure they've checked everything that might be wrong with their experiments. Scientists are also humans and subject to the same weaknesses. People, in general, regardless of their profession or stated aim of truth-telling or whatever do not respond in the correct manner to challenges to their beliefs nor do as much due diligence as they can on them.
Richard Feynman - Snippet 1
Richard Feynman - Snippet 2
I also recommend simply watching the entire 20-minute video by NZ medical doctor, Sam Bailey, who has been vilified for her views on the covid situation ... and way beyond.

I will put my own answer to my question in a different post. If you can come up with an argument that shows my claim that the evidence favours the "scripted" hypothesis over the "speaking candidly" hypothesis doesn't stand up I'll be all ears

[ login to reply ] posted on Sunday, Jun 26, 2022 12:38:12 AM

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Dr. Richard
1

This is not a political forum. 

answered on Friday, Jun 24, 2022 11:20:46 AM by Dr. Richard

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Petra Liverani writes:

My question doesn't relate to politics so much as power generally and how those in power weaponise who we are against us. They understand how we break into different profiles in the way we think and they target us accordingly with their propaganda. They understand how propaganda works in ways that seem counterintuitive except when you understand how power works. Power doesn't behave in the same way as normal people and, in fact, it couldn't behave like normal people to work. Power doesn't necessarily have to hide its crimes although it might sometimes, it can push them right in our faces and have us accept them - what could testify to power better than the ability to do that.

My question relates to logical fallacies so whatever else, Dr Richard, that makes it valid I think.

posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2022 08:46:12 PM
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Petra Liverani
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I was curious to see what responses would be put forward but obviously no one is putting forward an explanation for how the "scripted" hypothesis favours "speaking candidly" so I put forward the explanation myself.

First I put forward four premises that need to be accepted in order to understand why "scripted" is the correct explanation and "speaking candidly" is a false premise.

Premise 1 - Staging of death and injury
Death and injury were staged (in the main at least with no clear evidence of reality for any of the 9,000 people allegedly affected) on 9/11 thus rather than being a terrorist attack or an "inside job" per se, 9/11 was, in reality, a Trauma-based Mind Control Psychological Operation (psyop) in the form of a massive Full-Scale Anti-Terrorist Exercise comprising a number of smaller exercises and drills - many of which they informed us of with a crucial few they didn't, pushed out as a real terrorist attack. All that happened for real on the day was damage to and destruction of buildings, which eventually led to the entire destruction of all seven buildings at the WTC; the planes were faked and death and injury were staged.

Premise 2 - They tell us they did it
In psyops, there are always signs above and beyond any weaknesses in the base narrative that we are, in fact, being psyopped. In the case of 9/11 the base narrative is preposterous to start with - impossible catastrophic failure of the mightiest nation's multi-trillion dollar military and intelligence infrastructure, coupled with claims that defy Newton's Laws of Motion every which way. These are added to with many gratuitous extras such as a claim by an alleged flight instructor about Hani Hanjour (the alleged pilot of the 270 manoeuvre into Defence HQ) that he cried when asked to attempt steep turns and stalls.

Premise 3 - Confident reliance on the Emperor's New Clothes effect and its great elasticity
The perps know, of course, their story is preposterous but they also know from centuries, millennia even, of experience that the Emperor's New Clothes effect means most people will accept it - they know there will, of course, be those who will reject it but they know they won't be in sufficient number to worry about. They also know that they can push out the truth one day and then bring it back the next - waving it away, pretending it didn't happen, providing ill-fitting explanations for it.

Premise 4 - Creation of a false dilemma through a propaganda strategy
For those they anticipate will reject their story they push the lie of real death and injury in a way specially targeted to them thus creating a "false dilemma" effect where the only two options people tend to believe are:
1. The terrorists were responsible for alleged death and injury
2. The US government was responsible for alleged death and injury
Close scrutiny of the evidence, however, shows us that what is outlined in Premise 1 describes 9/11.

So now we get to the journalists being "scripted".
I put forward three reasons although there may be more.

1. Premise 2 says part of psyop MO is that they tell us the truth underneath the propaganda so having the journalists allude to controlled demolition is just one of the ways they tell us the truth, however, with the elasticity of the Emperor's New Clothes mentioned in Premise 3 they can bring it back as if it never happened. It's just all waved away, doesn't mean anything - and, of course, you have explanations put forward as we see by Arlo. Having Brian Williams use the very specific industry term "to go in" used for implosions ( "Can you confirm it was No. 7 that just went in?" ) is just one of the subtleties of their "telling us underneath the propaganda" MO and a little joke they probably enjoyed. I had no idea about this term until I saw a comment on a YouTube video.

2. As 9/11 is a story the journalists will, of course, be scripted. They wouldn't have journalists just saying whatever they wanted - what would they say? It's a narrative, it's not real (apart from the buildings) and as they're targeting the anticipated rejecters of their story with "real death and injury" propaganda it wouldn't work very well to have journalists scripted to allude to fire, especially in the case of WTC-7 whose collapse wasn't disguised by even a single lick of flame. If the journalists alluded to fire on the day that would start to make the rejecters of the 9/11 story suspicious that the journalists were in on it and that would be very puzzling, wouldn't it? All the journalists in on the callous, cold-blooded murder of 3,000 of their fellow citizens?

Two birds with one stone: the perps manage to "tell the truth" as part of their MO and at the same time keep rejecters of the 9/11 narrative unsuspecting that the journalists were "in on" 9/11.

I tend to think that the journalists may not even have spoken the words they said on 9/11 but were told to participate in an exercise at some other time. Then on the day, their words were rolled out as if being spoken in real time. Whatever happened they had to be in on it but when, of course, we know 9/11 was, in effect, a massive exercise, that completely changes the complexion of their being in on it. A pretty large number of people had to be in on 9/11 one way or another. That's why, although I recognise the overwhelming evidence for astronauts landing on the moon, I never use the "too many people" argument.

3. We simply wouldn't expect journalists to allude to such an incriminating means of destruction as controlled demolition voluntarily when the terrorist narrative has already been established; journalists know what side their bread is buttered on and power has an amazing ability to create a taboo effect so we absolutely would not expect journalists to volunteer allusions to CD. However, alluding to it as part of a script makes sense when we consider Premises 3 and 4 above. Yes, it's incriminating but while the perps know they can get away with it, it's all under control, journalists wouldn't have the same attitude at an individual level.

answered on Sunday, Jun 26, 2022 01:30:09 AM by Petra Liverani

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