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Cameron

Does this fallacy exist?

X says, "I'd only vote for A not because I like them, but because they're less harmful than B." To which Y (the opposer) responds: "What if the election was between C and D, who are both even worse than A and B?" X replies, "But C and D are worse than A and B." Thus going off-topic, asserts that Y is wrong, and never fully addressing or arguing the point made.

Is there a fallacy for addressing the factors of a scenario, rather the argument behind it. 

asked on Saturday, Aug 02, 2025 09:24:16 AM by Cameron

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Answers

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Mr. Wednesday
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I think either one of these speakers could be committing a fallacy, but the slice of the argument provided is a bit too narrow to determine which one it is.

X says they'd vote for A, a candidate they don't like, because they're the lesser of two evils. When Y presents the hypothetical of an election between C and D, who maybe in this scenario might be Hitler and Satan, Y could be trying to tease out whether X's lesser of two evils calculus holds in all scenarios, or whether there is some line in the sand beyond which a candidate couldn't possibly get X's vote. I think that's a legitimate line of inquiry. But, they also could be setting up for a false equivalence , such as "You would vote for A, but you would also vote for Hitler."

When X responds to this, it looks like they are avoiding the issue . They're not actually addressing the hypothetical Y presented. However, it could be that they do have a line in the sand which they're just not articulating well, or that they're trying to keep the argument from going off topic and want to stick to the differences between candidates A and B.

answered on Tuesday, Aug 05, 2025 11:14:26 AM by Mr. Wednesday

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Cameron writes:

Thank you. And yes this is what basically happened. I was debating someone on how they would vote in a prior, historical election. And they said, "Well Candidate 1: I hate. I give an approval rating of maybe 15%. But Candidate 2: I dislike. I'd rate maybe a 35%." To which I responded, "Then why vote? They're both 'bad' in your eyes, so why vote?" They then respond "well to cancel out a vote of another." I then propose a hypothetical where two really bad candidates are running like Hitler and Stalin. But instead of saying which one they'd vote for because it would cancel out a vote for the worst one, they instead say "Well they're people who committed genocides."

So instead of providing a choice they now point to the factors of the argument. So I was wondering if that's already a fallacy or maybe it could be a new one? I wasn't sure. Thanks for your answer.

posted on Friday, Aug 08, 2025 04:11:49 PM
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Bo Bennett, PhD
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Y claimed C and D are worse than A and B.
X agreed that "C and D are worse than A and B". How is this asserting that Y is wrong? Wrong about what?

X refused to engage in the hypothetical by responding with what seems to be a nonsensical response - like they did not understand what Y had said.

No fallacies here, just poor communication.

answered on Saturday, Aug 02, 2025 10:15:45 AM by Bo Bennett, PhD

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Cameron writes:

Sorry I really should have been more clear. Y is suggesting X not vote at all in the election with A and B. But Y is saying, "No. Even though I don't like both, a vote for A will cancel out a vote for B--who is arguably worse." If that helps.

posted on Friday, Aug 08, 2025 04:30:21 PM
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Dr. Richard
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First of all, “A” is singular, not a “them.” However, ignoring the politically motivated pronouns and bad English, one obvious fallacy is that of diversion. The Fallacy of Diversion is when one party attempts to divert the discussion to something more comfortable when he has no answer to the topic at hand. This is a  verbal slight of hand. There are others. 

answered on Saturday, Aug 02, 2025 10:24:32 AM by Dr. Richard

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Bo Bennett, PhD writes:

I don't think the use of "them" here is political or referring to a non-binary person. This is common when the gender of the person is irrelevant or unknown. As a 53 year old, I found this difficult getting use to since this was not the way we were taught in the 70s and 80s, but this is perfectly fine today. (APA, Chicago, MLA, Associated Press (AP), and Oxford English Dictionary all accept singular “they” in appropriate contexts.)

posted on Saturday, Aug 02, 2025 10:34:31 AM
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Dr. Richard writes:
[To Bo Bennett, PhD]

Maybe. Okay, giving the benefit of the doubt. But still bad English.

[ login to reply ] posted on Saturday, Aug 02, 2025 11:56:04 AM
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Arlo
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As I understand the situation, it seems that X claims to vote for the option (s)he considers the “better” one, not necessarily an ideal one.   X then presents  a binary example: A & B (perhaps based on the US political model).

Y then hypothesizes an example that includes neither A nor B but another binary pair (C and D) — options that are somehow “worse” and less desirable that A and B.

It’s not clear what the “What if …?” question asks.  Is it (1)“For which of C or D would you vote?” or is it 2) “Does that mean you would abstain because A is not in the running?”

If we take X purely at the initial “I'd only vote for A” statement, X’s logical reply would have to be “I wouldn’t vote because A isn’t running.”

If we take X’s initial statement to mean (s)he would vote for the option considered the “better” one, even if not ideal, then C’s logical response would have to be “I’d vote for the better of C or D”.

Regardless, there’s a bunch of information missing, either in the description or the discourse between X and Y.  Without that information, it’s not possible to accurately identify fallacies.

There is one huge logical flaw, however — the assertion that Y is wrong!  From the description provided, Y’s sole input was to ask about an associated, hypothetical situation.  Y’s question may or may not be welcome … but asking about a parallel situation can’t make Y wrong!

H opefully, Y is interested in understanding X and looking for common ground … as opposed to just picking holes in what X says.

answered on Monday, Aug 04, 2025 12:59:36 PM by Arlo

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Cameron writes:

Sorry for the confusion, I hope that this may clear it up:

In this scenario X refuses to not vote. Even though they don't like both candidates. Instead X only votes to cancel out a vote for the other candidate, B. So Y then provides a scenario in which its now C and D running. But they are really bad. Say equivalent to Hitler and Stalin.

A realizes that they are really bad and no matter what they couldn't vote for any, not even to cancel a vote for the arguably worse one. But if they say this, that will denote their whole argument. So instead they diverge and say "Well, Hitler and Stalin are people who committed genocides." 

So instead of addressing the point, they address the factors of the argument?  So I was wondering if this was a fallacy or not. Could it be one?

posted on Friday, Aug 08, 2025 04:20:41 PM
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Arlo writes:

It seems we have ineffective communication between X and Y producing a lack of clarity about whether X claims always to vote, even if for a less than great option or whether there might be situations in which X would abstain.  

Since X chose not to respond to the hypothetical, perhaps a direct question would help.

We can’t tell if there’s a fallacy (none has been described) but clearly there is poor communication between X and Y.

posted on Friday, Aug 08, 2025 05:05:29 PM