Question

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The Dudeman

Quick fallacy check?

I'm writing something about Violence and Video Games, and want to make sure some of my arguments are logically sound. I'm just going to put three examples:

1. You see, the same people who want more restrictions on who can buy video games, with even some wanting to restrict what games can even be sold at all, are often the ones who will turn around and say that a concealed carry permit is stepping on our rights.

2. Any gun owner will tell you that toy guns and real guns are totally different. Even though they look similar, if you’ve only ever played with a toy gun, you’re not going to likely know much of what you’re doing if you just decided to use a real one. Games are the same way. No matter how similar the actions on screen look to real life, the idea that it is easier to go from pressing buttons on a controller to shooting a gun than it is to go from shooting toy guns to shooting real guns is absurd. By this logic, we should ban toys.

3. So, if you’re a “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people” believer, stop saying video games cause violence, because you are literally saying the thing you don’t want others to say about your guns. And if you’re a believer that games cause violence because a lot of violent people played video games, sit back and actually listen to what you’re saying. Because I guarantee if I told you that guns cause violence because a lot of violent people used guns to murder people, you’d lose your shit.
asked on Sunday, Oct 02, 2016 08:59:43 PM by The Dudeman

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Answers

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Bo Bennett, PhD
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I am addressing your question as more of an academic in the social sciences than I am as logician.

1) This is just a weak claim with no conclusion, so I can't say anything about the logic. By "weak" I mean you use the word "often," that let's you off the hook from having to support the claim. I see no problem here.

2)

Any gun owner will tell you that toy guns and real guns are totally different.



All it takes is one owner to say the are the same to make you a liar. For the same effect, write "Gun owners will tell you that toy guns and real guns are totally different."

Even though they look similar, if you’ve only ever played with a toy gun, you’re not going to likely know much of what you’re doing if you just decided to use a real one.



The statistics may be on your side but salience is not, meaning people will disagree. Toddlers accidentally shoot dozens of people each year. Pulling a trigger of a loaded gun when the safety is off is not that difficult.

Games are the same way. No matter how similar the actions on screen look to real life, the idea that it is easier to go from pressing buttons on a controller to shooting a gun than it is to go from shooting toy guns to shooting real guns is absurd. By this logic, we should ban toys.



Assuming you convince your readers that using toy guns does not teach kids anything about using real guns (I don't think you have), there are still a couple of problems I have with this. First, "absurd" is not the best word to use. I understand that outside of our world of logic, "absurd" has a less-formal meaning, but I still don't like watering down definition. Perhaps change to "a real stretch" or something like that. Second, I am not following the jump to banning toys. I think you did the math in your head but didn't show you work. As a reader, this appears to be a non sequitur to me.

3) By this point, I no longer am following your argument so nothing here is making sense. When you make long arguments such as this, it is vital to be very clear each step of the way because once you lose someone, the remainder of your argument is pointless.

Hope this helps!
answered on Monday, Oct 03, 2016 07:31:19 AM by Bo Bennett, PhD

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skips777
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Most toy guns are now manufactured to where they don't resemble real guns at all. They have rules and regulations to add non gun metal colors to them. But as Bo said it doesn't stop some idiot from allowing his kids access to real guns by not properly securing them in the home. I was 12 years old before I even knew my father had a carbine rifle, a shot gun, and a .38 cal 6 shooter in the house and he was a military man for 6 years so he is of course pro gun for my ones own protection.
Video games is a whole new animal in this day in age because the realism allows for productive use of them in the military. So yes they teach people how to yield a weapon in some cases but on the public game market it again is different because limitations on weight. Color, etc.
Guns don't cause -violence, this is confusing cause and effect. The university of Arizona has done research on this very issue. They've put four different types of guns in a Lucite display and have been studying them for 14 years. None of the guns have shown violent tendencies as of yet. Hell, they don't even complain......ok I made this up but the point still stands, guns are information. Anyone can turn information into a bad thing or at least use it as such.
answered on Monday, Oct 03, 2016 10:39:55 AM by skips777

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