Question

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noblenutria@gmail.com

This must be fallacious reasoning...

I saw a meme which said this...

Men who aren't trash understand
the statement men are trash
doesn't apply to them.

My first reaction is that this is sexism. It is a trick. This is a way to defame a whole group and slyly claim that only specific members of the group are really targeted. Does this qualify as a specific fallacy?
asked on Saturday, Jan 19, 2019 01:31:30 AM by noblenutria@gmail.com

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Answers

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Bo Bennett, PhD
1

Women who aren't bitches understand
the statement women are bitches
doesn't apply to them.



If your intent it is get people to see that their statement/meme/belief is problematic, sometimes the best technique is to use the same statement/meme/belief on them with the subject changed to go against their ideological position. I learned this technique and the effectiveness of it, when a former theist once told me the moment they became an atheist (which is quite rare to have a "moment")... their go to argument was always "How can you be an atheist when you stroll through the forest on a spring day?" to which someone replied, "How can you be a theist when your stroll through the cancer ward at a children's hospital?" What happens is the person automatically and unconsciously starts to argue against your claim and realizes that their claim no longer makes sense either.

If there is a fallacy, it reminded me of the No True Scotsman fallacy...

When a universal (“all”, “every”, etc.) claim is refuted, rather than conceding the point or meaningfully revising the claim, the claim is altered by going from universal to specific, and failing to give any objective criteria for the specificity.

... but there is actually some objective criteria for specificity which is "men who understand that all men aren't trash, aren't trash." "Trash" is being redefined to mean "interpreting 'men are trash' to mean 'all men are trash'." This might be the Definist Fallacy if the purpose is to make it easier to defend the claim that "all men are trash." Otherwise, I would say this is just factually wrong. I am sure men such as Harvey Weinstein, who most would consider the embodiment of human "trash," don't think that ALL men are trash so according to this new definition they wouldn't be trash and that is "absurd" (informally speaking, via reductio ad absurdum).

answered on Saturday, Jan 19, 2019 06:59:47 AM by Bo Bennett, PhD

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KDU writes:

Sorry for replying to an old thread, but I just wanted to point out that a common reply to changing the subject from men to women ("men are trash" to "women are bitches" etc) is "that's a false equivalence, because men aren't oppressed". How would you respond to that? Is it a non-sequitur, or am I missing something?

posted on Monday, May 16, 2022 03:29:08 AM
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Bo Bennett, PhD writes:
[To KDU]

Yes, non-sequitur. Oppression doesn't protect someone from being a "bitch."

[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, May 16, 2022 05:13:53 AM
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KDU writes:
[To Bo Bennett, PhD]

Got it, thanks.

[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, May 16, 2022 10:05:14 AM
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mchasewalker
0
Or conversely, Men who are trash don't understand they are trash, because they don't know what they don't know. This is an example of a cognitive bias Dunning-Kruger effect. In medical terms it's referred to as Anosognosia (/æˌnɒsɒɡˈnoʊziə/, /æˌnɒsɒɡˈnoʊʒə/; from Ancient Greek ἀ- a-, "without", νόσος nosos, "disease" and γνῶσις gnōsis, "knowledge") is a deficit of self-awareness, a condition in which a person with some disability seems unaware of its existence. It was first named by the neurologist Joseph Babinski in 1914.
answered on Saturday, Jan 19, 2019 09:53:51 AM by mchasewalker

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max
0
You write:

If your intent it is get people to see that their statement/meme/belief is problematic, sometimes the best technique is to use the same statement/meme/belief on them with the subject changed to go against their ideological position.

That is one of my go to arguments. Challenging the belief by changing the subject for the sole purpose of going against the ideological position.

Typically, in your example of strolling through the woods with strolling through a cancer ward, the person you direct that to will mock you for bringing up a cancer ward when no one was speaking of a cancer ward. And 'STRAWMAN" is hurled at me when, in fact, they will refuse to see the point your making because it will confuse or challenge them.
answered on Sunday, Jan 20, 2019 07:48:12 PM by max

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