Question

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Dean

"You clearly don't understand...."

In debating people, they quite often make an assumption that I don't understand the subject (and they do). Rather than debating the issues, they focus on this. Sometimes this happens when it is my field of professional expertise (and probably not theirs)!

They say something like, "If you truly understood the way that tanks work, you'd be forced to admit that Montgomery was the greatest general ever."

Is this assumption -- or declaration -- of ignorance on my part a logical fallacy? What is it called?

Thanks!

asked on Friday, Mar 05, 2021 09:28:47 PM by Dean

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Answers

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TrappedPrior (RotE)
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This is bulverism. Assume they are wrong, then explain to them how wrong they are, instead of demonstrating that they are wrong. Thus, we avoid the important part (checking our premises) and focus on discrediting people rather than evaluating arguments.

It's begging the question + fallacy of opposition.

 

answered on Saturday, Mar 06, 2021 12:07:01 PM by TrappedPrior (RotE)

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Dean writes:

Thank you!

I think the fallacy of opposition is probably the closest to what I was looking for.

It also has something in common with the courtier's reply now that I look more closely at the Wikipedia definition. I had assumed it had to do with dismissing someone by saying they don't have the proper credentials and thus ignoring their argument. But now I see it is broader than that.

"The courtier's reply is a type of informal fallacy, coined by American biologist PZ Myers, in which a respondent to criticism claims that the critic lacks sufficient knowledge, credentials, or training to pose any sort of criticism whatsoever."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtier%27s_reply

Thanks for also pointing out Bulverism. I had not heard of that term but I'm very familiar with the tactic.

 

posted on Sunday, Mar 07, 2021 01:43:44 AM
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Dr. Richard
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The first thing that strikes me is The Dunning-Kruger effect — the cognitive bias in which people wrongly overestimate their knowledge or ability in a specific area. This is a fallacy, but more of a psychological issue.

For discussions, I have found it far better to use the Boghassian approach, which is to have the other person explain to you what you are missing. In the process, they will either (1) reason themselves to your position or (2) you will learn you did make a mistake. 

answered on Saturday, Mar 06, 2021 06:46:45 AM by Dr. Richard

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Dean writes:

Thanks for your replies. They have given me some food for thought.

I agree in some sense there may be a Dunning-Kruger effect but I'm not sure they will admit that! Also, thanks for the Boghassian approach - I'll google that.

I thought of another example instead of the hypothetical I used before. This kind of tactic comes up periodically. Plus the topic of this second example is also something people seem to be interested in here separately from even the logical structure.

At another time and place, we were discussing whether scientists believe in consciousness exists in some form besides just being a by-product of brain functioning. I said many do not. The reply was along the lines of "If you had read Bohm, Pribram, Schrodinger, etc., you'd realize that they do accept consciousness.

I'm not concerned with the logical fallacy which is overgeneralization, I suppose, in claiming that just because some scientists do, all do.

In this case, I had read them but that's not my question. My question, however, concerns the tactic of declaring I hadn't read those scientists and was therefore uninformed.  I'm wondering if there's a name for this tactic.

 

posted on Saturday, Mar 06, 2021 09:01:33 AM
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Dr. Richard writes:
[To Dean]

Boghossian's book "How to Have Impossible Conversations" is excellent and in Kindle. Anyone who want to engage in discussions will benefit from reading it. 

As to your question, this sounds to me more like a simple putdown or attempted psychological bullying. Sort of an intellectual Argumentum ad baculum (AKA appeal to the stick, appeal to force, appeal to threat) – an argument made through coercion or threats of force to support position. If you want to engage with him, I’d ignore it and “go Boghossian” on him.

[ login to reply ] posted on Saturday, Mar 06, 2021 04:29:08 PM
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Dean writes:

Thanks for the recommendation on the book. I'll put it on my list.

Although I don't really plan on engaging with him much further in this case, I'll remember your advice.

Much of this is practice for when I publish some of my research and I'll be forced to defend the ideas in earnest. At that time, I'll want to "go Boghassian" where possible in order to reach some kind of understanding. It's very valuable for me to become aware of these issues beforehand.

posted on Sunday, Mar 07, 2021 01:56:49 AM
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Jack
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This also sounds like a non-sequitir to me. I came to this conclusion by trying to look at the argument in standard form:

 

1. You don't admit that montomery was the greatest general ever.

2. Therefore, you don't understand how tanks work.

 

 

answered on Saturday, Mar 06, 2021 08:35:58 AM by Jack

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Dean writes:

Thanks, I'll consider that.

posted on Sunday, Mar 07, 2021 02:22:17 AM