Question

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Felipe Contreras

Did I identify an uncoined fallacy?

The form of the fallacy is like this:

  1. Some amounts of X are bad
  2. Some amounts of X represent all amounts of X
  3. ∴ All amounts of X are bad

If premise 2 is false, then it is a fallacy. The closest I could find is the aphorism "the dose makes the poison", which is used in toxicology because basically everything is toxic, even water; it all depends on the amount .

I've decided to coin it the amount fallacy.

There are many, many examples, and although this is a specific form of hasty generalization fallacy, I don't see many people identifying them as such. I wrote a blog post about it, but I don't know if I'm allowed to post it here.

asked on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2020 06:23:54 AM by Felipe Contreras

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TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:

The argument is confusing because premise 2 is unclear.

What is meant by "some amounts of X represent all amounts of X"?

In a box set of kitchen plates I have 32 plates. So all amounts of X would = 32. If I take some of these (16 plates), do 16 plates represent all 32?

Or does this mean, when the units are uniform (all the plates are the same), the properties of one can be used to describe the others?

posted on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2020 10:05:27 AM
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Felipe Contreras writes:
[To Rationalissimo]

Premise 2 is there simply to address exceptions. When the fallacy is made this premise is assumed to be true, not really considered.

In order to begin with the fallacy you need some amount that is good or bad. If you state that 32 plates are "bad" in some way, and you ignore premise 2, then you might conclude that having 1 or 2 plates is also bad, and that would be a fallacy (if premise 2 is false).

It's much more useful to think of real example when one amount is bad, but another is not, like for example drinking 1 kg of water a day vs. 100 kg of water a day.

[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2020 03:55:12 PM

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Answers

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Bo Bennett, PhD
2

My first thought it is fallacies are not dependent on premise being true or not. Your form of the fallacy is actually an argument. If premise 2 is false, then you just have an unsound argument.

More generically, the fallacy is actually in making no useful distinction between "some" and "all," or two points on a continuum, when such a distinction is warranted. This is the argument of the beard .

If someone were to argue that some of X are bad therefore all of X are bad, before calling "fallacy" I would want to know what X are. If X are murders, I wouldn't have a problem with this. If X were the number of strikes in a baseball game, I still wouldn't argue a fallacy, I would simply say they don't know how baseball works. Likewise, if someone were to argue that a large amount of chemical X is poison, therefore, a minuscule amount of chemical X is poison, I would argue that they don't know how poisons work. I see this more as a problem of specialized knowledge than a fallacy.

Having said all this, anyone can argue a fallacy if the conclusion doesn't follow (a basic non sequitur ). Depending on X, it might not follow that all amounts of X are bad only if some are. Fallacies are sometimes less helpful than pointing out specific errors in understanding. I think this one of those cases. For example, simply telling someone their conclusion "doesn't follow" is not very helpful. WHY doesn't it follow? This is where specific fallacies come in where there is an error in the form of the argument. In this case, the error is domain/context dependent.

I hope all this is clear and makes sense. I struggled on this one for a while and am certainly open to other points of view.

answered on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2020 08:55:15 AM by Bo Bennett, PhD

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Felipe Contreras writes:

Fallacies are not dependent on premise being true or not

Consider this argument:

  1. Sample S of population P has quality Q
  2. Sample S is not representative of population P
  3. ∴ Population P has quality Q

If you say "some rich people are greedy, therefore all rich people are greedy" you are ignoring premise 2, which in this case is possibly true, this is a hasty generalization fallacy. If on the other hand you say "I tested a spaghetti strand and it's done, therefore the spaghetti pot is done", in this case premise 2 is false, and it's a generalization, but it's not a fallacy.

The fallacy occurs because most people ignore the unstated premise. Hidden premises do exist.

I think it should be clear what "some" and all "mean": some ∃(x), all: ∀(x).

The argument of the beard is related, but not the same. In the argument of the beard it's precision the problem; at what point does bath water become dangerous: 60°C? 59°C? 59.9°C? In my amount fallacy this precision doesn't matter; it's fine to say 40°C is good and 70°C is bad; the point is acknowledging there's a distinction, regardless of at precisely which point it happens. Moreover, the argument of the beard is about distinguishing two extremes, my argument is not confined to two extremes, and when two extremes are considered, the point is not to distinguish them, the point is to separate their desirability.

posted on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2020 04:25:35 PM
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Bo Bennett, PhD writes:
[To Felipe Contreras]

I see what you are saying. If we consider a fallacy in argument form, then make one or more of the premises false, it appears that we no longer have the fallacy. My issue with that is fallacies are about errors in reasoning, not errors of fact. If someone believes that Sample S is representative of population P when it is really not (specific instance), they are factually incorrect. When someone ignores sample size in making a determination about population P, they are reasoning fallaciously. When we are dealing with an informal fallacy, logical form is more of a guide than a rule since informal fallacies are more about context than form. With this in mind, regardless on the truth of premise 2 (let's say Sample S is representative of population P), if someone makes that claim and just happens to right while ignoring sample size, they have still committed the fallacy (i.e., have a problem with their reasoning). So to clarify, "Informal Fallacies are not dependent on premise being true or not."

One more example (anonymous authority )

P1. Person 1 heard some guy 2 say that X was true.
P2. Some guy 2 is anonymous.
C. Therefore, X is true.

It doesn't matter if P2 is true or not. Guy 2 could be the world's premier expert on the issue, but as long as person 1 thinks guy 2 is anonymous, then person 1 is still committing the fallacy.

I don't think you every defined your amount fallacy - you just provided the logical form. How are you defining it? (feel free to link to your blog post, just don't repost it here).

[ login to reply ] posted on Wednesday, Oct 14, 2020 08:43:13 AM
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Felipe Contreras writes:
[To Bo Bennett, PhD]

Right, it's an error in reasoning if you ignore premise 2. If you want the error in reasoning in the form itself, then just remove the second premise.

  • Some amounts of X are bad
  • ∴ All amounts of X are bad

I define just like that: "some amounts of X are bad, therefore any amount of X is bad". If X is income inequality, that's actually a popular argument in the wild: some inequality are good, therefore any amount of income inequality is good.

The amount fallacy.

I list many more examples in my post, but basically anything with a sweet spot can be easily be prey of this fallacy. Another example is immigration: some immigration is good, therefore any amount of immigration is good.

[ login to reply ] posted on Wednesday, Oct 14, 2020 01:09:56 PM
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mchasewalker
1

Fallacy of Composition

Description: Inferring that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole.  This is the opposite of the fallacy of division.

Logical Form:

A is part of B.

A has property X.

Therefore, B has property X.

Example #1:

Each brick in that building weighs less than a pound.  Therefore, the building weighs less than a pound.

Example #2:

Hydrogen is not wet.  Oxygen is not wet.  Therefore, water (H2O) is not wet.

Example #3:

Your brain is made of molecules.  Molecules are not the source of consciousness.  Therefore, your brain cannot be the source of consciousness.

Explanation: I included three examples that demonstrate this fallacy from the very obvious to the less obvious, but equally as flawed.  In the first example, it is obvious because weight is cumulative.  In the second example, we know that water is wet, but we only experience the property of wetness when the molecules are combined and in large scale.  This introduces the concept of emergent properties, which when ignored, tends to promote magical thinking.  The final example is a common argument made for a supernatural explanation for consciousness.  On the surface, it is difficult to imagine a collection of molecules resulting in something like consciousness because we are focusing on the properties of the parts (molecules) and not the whole system, which incorporates emergence, motion, the use of energy, temperature (vibration), order, and other relational properties.

Exception: If the whole is very close to the similarity of the parts, then more assumptions can be made from the parts to the whole.  For example, if we open a small bag of potato chips and discover that the first one is delicious, it is not fallacious to conclude that the whole snack (all the chips, minus the bag) will be just as delicious, but we cannot say the same for one of those giant family size bags because most of us would be hurling after about 10 minutes of our chip-eating frenzy.

Tip: It is worth a few minutes of your time to research the topic of “emergence.” 

answered on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2020 02:10:41 PM by mchasewalker

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Felipe Contreras writes:

Inferring that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole.

It's not the fallacy of composition because there's no whole, and no part.

Supposing a person weighs 70 kg, the lethal dose of water is around 6.3 kg, but this is not known. That person regularly drinks 1 kg of water, so he assumes drinking 10 kg should be fine. Where's the "whole", and wheres the "part" in this fallacy?

And yeah, I'm familiar with emergence, I don't see how it is related to this amount fallacy.

posted on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2020 04:47:41 PM
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mchasewalker
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The way you've syllogized and described your so-called "amount" fallacy does indeed refer to either composition or division fallacy - hardly a new discovery.

You responded: "there's no whole, and no part", and yet you've named it the "amount" fallacy - so it appears contradictory.

• Some amounts of X are bad (part)

• Some amounts of X represent all amounts of X (part-to-whole)

 All amounts of X are bad (whole)

answered on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2020 05:06:09 PM by mchasewalker

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Felipe Contreras writes:

You created a new answer instead of responding to my comment.

This is the definition of composition:

the nature of something's ingredients or constituents; the way in which a whole or mixture is made up.

A tire is a component of a car, you can apply the fallacy of composition there. 1 kg is not a component of the universe of possible mass values which is pretty much all the real numbers (ℝ).

A continuum is not composed of a set of infinitesimal values.

posted on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2020 06:33:04 PM
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mchasewalker writes:

QED

posted on Wednesday, Oct 14, 2020 11:58:45 PM