Question

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noblenutria@gmail.com

Naturalistic/Moralistic Fallacies

I have started a hobby of posting about fallacies in my social media feeds because I see a pandemic of bad reasoning in the world.  I have been wanting to post about the naturalist/moralistic fallacies but I would like some other fallacyophiles to check my work before I post.  

Naturalistic Positive
Lab grown meat is natural to make and therefore ethical to eat.

Explanation
This one is wrong because lab grown venison is not natural to make, at least not as natural as how a deer makes venison.  

Naturalistic Negative
Lab grown meat is unnatural to make and therefore unethical to eat

Explanation
This one is wrong because it is ethical to eat many things which are not natural to make, like cheese wiz.

Moralistic Positive
Lab grown meat is ethical to eat and therefore natural

Explanation
This one is wrong because cheese wiz is ethical to eat but not natural to make, or at least not as natural as old fashioned cheese.

Moralistic Negative
Lab grown meat is unethical to eat and therefore unnatural 

Explanation
This one is wrong because eating lab grown meat is more ethical than eating a real animal because lab grown meat involved less resources to make and involves no animal cruelty.  

Closer to the truth is that lab grown venison is unnatural to make, or at least less natural than how a deer makes it, but is ethical to eat nonetheless. 

As a proponent of lab grown meat myself I could argue that it is natural to make, in that it really is identical to deer meat, just grown in a lab, but this would be a naturalistic fallacy.  This is where fallacies are the trickiest, because fallacious arguments can be used in the name of a good cause, like environmentalism, but they are still fallacious arguments.   

So my question is, are my examples really examples of moralistic and naturalistic fallacies.  I am worried that I am mixed up with the similar but different Appeal to Nature Fallacy.  

Thanks

asked on Friday, Apr 16, 2021 12:14:16 PM by noblenutria@gmail.com

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Bo Bennett, PhD
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I think there is some confusion here with the appeal to nature . When thinking about the naturalistic fallacy and moralistic fallacy , remember the ought/is.

X is.
Therefore, X ought to be. (naturalistic fallacy)

X ought to be.
Therefore, X is. (moralistic fallacy)

answered on Friday, Apr 16, 2021 12:38:08 PM by Bo Bennett, PhD

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TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:

This. Although it can be confusing, since they can overlap!

posted on Friday, Apr 16, 2021 05:57:18 PM
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noblenutria@gmail.com writes:
[To Rationalissimo]

The argument that a proponent of lab-grown meat is most likely to make is that 

Lab grown meat is ethical environmentally, therefore it is natural to make.

It is ethical and therefore ought to be natural.  So such a proponent might label lab-grown meat might label the meat as natural and when asked they would explain that it is natural because it is ethical environmentally, and the fact that it was grown unnaturally in a petri dish would not figure into their judgement.  This is the moralistic fallacy, right? Because lab-grown meat is not natural just because it is ethical.  

[ login to reply ] posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2021 12:14:04 PM
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LogicG writes:

[To noblenutria@gmail.com]

In the views mentioned in your post, the implicit fallacies expressed would be:

Natural food grows in soil.

Therefore, (all) food ought to grow in soil. ( naturalistic fallacy )

Therefore, food out of a lab is unnatural.

It is unethical to eat unnaturals.

Therefore, it is unethical to eat food out of a lab.

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Natural food is in the way in which food ought to be.

Therefore, (all) food is to be in the way in which natural food is. ( Moralistic fallacy )

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My guess is that the moralistic fallacy has something to do with teleology.

[ login to reply ] posted on Sunday, Apr 18, 2021 05:11:15 AM
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GoblinCookie writes:
[To noblenutria@gmail.com]

I did not know there even was a debate as to the ethics of lab-grown meat.

[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Apr 20, 2021 06:33:25 AM
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TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:
[To GoblinCookie]

You'd be surprised!

(Or maybe not...)

[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Apr 20, 2021 06:34:10 PM
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TrappedPrior (RotE)
1

Dr Bo has already addressed the mix-up with the appeal to nature.

As a proponent of lab grown meat myself I could argue that it is natural to make, in that it really is identical to deer meat, just grown in a lab, but this would be a naturalistic fallacy.

You could say:

P) We should try to reduce harm to animals.

P) Lab-grown meat is identical to real meat (in terms of taste) but not (in terms of how it is sourced)

Implicit P) Lab-grown meat does not harm animals.

P) Switching to lab-grown meat would reduce harm to animals.

C) We should replace real meat with lab-grown meat.

Since people are really just after the taste and texture of meat, if there is a way to source it that doesn't harm animals, yet in other ways is the exact same...it's a win-win!

answered on Friday, Apr 16, 2021 07:37:14 PM by TrappedPrior (RotE)

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noblenutria@gmail.com writes:

Thank you for your response. 

This example you gave looks like a valid argument.  That was your intention right?  I am trying to understand how to make a moralistic or naturalistic fallacy on purpose.  How would you formulate a moralistic fallacy using lab-grown meat as an example?

posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2021 05:50:12 PM
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TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:
[To noblenutria@gmail.com]

This example you gave looks like a valid argument.  That was your intention right?

Yep.

How would you formulate a moralistic fallacy using lab-grown meat as an example?

Well, what is the moralistic fallacy? Deducing the existence ('is) of X, based on whether it is considered moral or not (ought). It's similar to the appeal to consequences, in that sense.

So, you'd assume a moral position on lab-grown meat, then make a naturalistic claim from that.

E.g. "X is moral, therefore X is." 

"We ought to eat lab-grown meat, therefore it is a good replacement for regular meat."

The conclusion does not follow, before even getting into the messy logic of stating terms and defining 'good'.

[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, Apr 19, 2021 08:39:05 PM