Question

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Jay

when opponent asks to ignore certain information

I have been trying to figure out if the following statement is a fallacy for a while. It usually crops up when I'm having a more philosophical debate with someone, so I'm not sure if it can be logically fallacious, but it feels very wrong to me.

Side A : According to source X your viewpoint is wrong.

Side B: Let's not bring source X into this, because then the whole argument is null.

I understand this to mean that if we both agree that source X is valid, then there would be no point in debating this issue.

Is this fallacious? When can this be a valid argument? How can a debate move on from this statement to a productive conclusion?

 

asked on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2021 06:58:44 AM by Jay

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TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:

Your question requires additional context for clarification; see my answer below.

posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2021 12:23:48 PM

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Answers

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TrappedPrior (RotE)
2

"According to source X, your viewpoint is wrong" - we need to flesh some things out here.

Did the person make a factual claim that source X disproves? (1)

Or did they give an opinion that the author of source X disagrees with? (2)

In the case of (1), this is a fair maneuver on side A's part, here's an example:

Alice: The Moon landings took place in 1968.

Bob: Actually, it happened in 1969, as source X shows. 

Side B ignoring evidence is not necessarily a fallacy as much as it is simple ignorance, as it depends on why source X was ignored. If it was ignored because of its origin (e.g. a Trump supporter dismissing a fact-check from Snopes, because it is "liberal") then this is a genetic fallacy.

In the case of (2), simply pulling out a source that disagrees does not prove the opinion is poorly-supported, wrong, or anything else (this is borderline appeal to authority/appeal to false authority). You would need to explain source X and why you think it supports your point.

answered on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2021 12:21:37 PM by TrappedPrior (RotE)

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Jay writes:

Thanks.

Your right, this does happen when we are not discussing facts, rather opinions. It would be more accurate to describe the debate like this:

Side A: Source X supports my opinion.

Side B: Let's then ignore source X.

The main problem is that B does not care to explain why the source x isn't valid. The only reason given is that since the source settles the debate - we cannot consider it.

I agree that discussing whether the source supports the claim and how - is relevant. But in this case Side B's statement makes it impossible to consider the source at all (this has been my experience).

posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2021 01:03:46 PM
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TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:
[To Jay]

In that case, it sounds more like refusal to reason than any specific fallacy.

'Let's not consider any evidence in favour of your opinion" lol

[ login to reply ] posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2021 02:03:35 PM
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Dr. Richard
1

Ah, the battle of the experts. This is a discussion of investigation.

The place to start is more fundamental than what X says or does not say. What is critical is the basis for what X claims. That requires disregarding X and doing your own investigation. 

A proper investigation should be transparent, objective, data-driven, inclusive of broad expertise, subject to independent oversight, and responsibly managed to minimize the impact of bias or conflict of interest.

answered on Thursday, Jun 24, 2021 11:22:44 AM by Dr. Richard

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Monique Z
1

I think this would be an example of cherry picking 

They are ignoring evidence that is inconvenient for their position in order to focus strictly on the evidence that might support it

As for whether this argument could ever be valid, the way it's presented in the OP, the argument is not deductive so philosophically speaking this argument can't be judged in terms of validity. It is possible to word this argument in a way that would be logically valid:

"If we consider the evidence (E) then the debate were having is meaningless. If we want to have a meaningful debate we must not consider E." 

This would be a logically valid way to put the argument. However, it would still be fallacious because the arguer is attempting to ignore evidence that does not support their position

answered on Thursday, Jun 24, 2021 08:59:30 AM by Monique Z

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richard smith
0

maybe genetic fallacy or some kind of Biases. I would depend on the reason for doing so.

answered on Thursday, Jun 24, 2021 09:04:13 AM by richard smith

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